Rear 1/4 window problem
Last year, our quarter window got stuck in the up position. We took it to a vert shop and they claimed a fix (I can't remember what they said they did--it wasn't a motor replacement though). One year later, wife is driving and says she heard a pop as she was trying to raise it (was in the down position and putting it up). It is now in the fully up position and will not do anything. I do not hear a motor turning (but it didn't last time either). There is no movement/play at the window--don't think it is a broken guide rod. The R rear 1/4 is fine. Before I commit to anything drastic/repairs, any ideas?
Comments
http://www.mustangmonthly.com/techartic ... ow_repair/
I have seen about five things happen to power windows, maybe more.
One thing I have seen happen to the motors is the nylon bushings in the gear housing wear out and break into pieces. When the motors are removed to replace the nylon bushings people don't take the time to clean out ALL of the old grease with the broken pieces of nylon all over it. They replace only the nylon bushings and eventually a piece of the broken nylon encased in the old grease gets lodged between the armature and gear somewhere and the motor stops working.
The second thing is the brushes get so old and worn that one brush gets dislodged from its housing from being so short when a window is pushed to its stop (up or down) the brush gets pushed out it doesn't contact the armature base any longer so the motor no longer turns.
A third thing I have seen is the center section of the gear that holds the nylon grommets breaks off of the main gear itself and it turns but the center section doesn't.
A fourth thing I have seen is the nylon bushings wear out and break which causes jerky movement of the window in the up or down direction or the sound of the motor running can be heard but the window doesn't move.
The fifth thing I have seen happen is the switch itself burn out on one window and needed to be replaced.
Remember when reinstalling a rebuilt or replaced motor, be sure to set the motor in place, start the bolts after the gear falls into the regulator gear teeth and almost snug the bolts and move the motor back and forth the little it will pivot and make sure it is centered in its place. I have also seen a bound motor eventually stop working too possibly because of the extra work the motor has to put out when it is off-center in the regulator. I have gone back in to removea stopped motor and as soon as I unbolt the motor the bound motor pops out of the regulator and starts working. I have put those motors back in and not messed with them again.
Now, feeling smart I went online to find a replacement--only Late model resto and NPD don't sell this piece that I see. The link above specifically says not for rear conv motors. That really stinks b/c that's a $15 part w/ free ship, now it looks like I'm looking to buy a new motor after all. Anybody like to chime in with ideas?
2nd question--what grease to use to lube up the new part or motor?
I can't be sure, but I want to say I took both gears side-by-side and found that Ford made the center section that the grommets ride on slightly different. I THINK what I did was modify or shave the extra height off of the gear section and reassembled the motor and it worked. Because the long shaft sticks out of the motor the center of the gear has to be shorter, again, if I remember correctly. If you buy the gear and grommets at an auto parts store (they come together) you can do a side-by-side comparison. Now that I have a Dremel and all kinds of bits and cut off wheels I have found the Dremel tool is a great tool for cutting, shaving, trimming and altering things related to projects of all kinds.
Worse case is you return the gear assembly to the parts store if you cannot alter it and then resort to buying the motor.
Parts stores like CarQuest, Advance Auto Parts, O'Reilly Auto Parts, AutoZine, Napa and others should be able to get the motors if you wind up needing to buy a new one.
I am relatively cheap when it comes to fixing things like window motors and like to use a motor as long as it is good. I haven't found many that can't be repaired. Brushes that are worn too bad are about the only reason I have had to trash a window motor and in some cases I have stretched the brush springs a bit when the brushes are a little loose and got the window motors working again.
Many many years ago Siemens sold a window motor rebuild kit (gear, grommets and grease) and the grease was in a bottle and looked like regular wheel bearing grease. Was it really regular bearing grease, I am not sure. I just started using bearing grease because I had it here.
"[don't waste] time trying to fix the old motor as they are notorious for failing. Easiest to buy the new motor from NPD for $65 and be done with having to tear seats out if the electrical motor becomes weak from over stressing to work the window like I did. Not necessary to lube, just bolt into place.
Also, I didn't mention but its not a bad idea to remove the motor on the other side and take the old grease out and clean up the gear cavity. Not necessary to pack the whole cavity like Ford did but only lightly grease the bottom of the cavity and a little grease on the plastic gear. I did this to mine on the opposite side along with the rod the window slides on and it greatly improved how that window worked.
A side note is I opened the new Cardone motor and found very little grease where the Ford motor was packed to the top and the grease had hardened which I believe is why they fail. Cardone said not to put any extra grease in their new motor and thats why I decided to clean and repack the motor on the opposite side. I used Maxima waterproof dirt bike and watercraft grease which is low friction and high temp grease."
I HATE pulling the rear seat.
They were pretty easy to fix once out, though. The bushings were found in my local part store's HELP section. Less than $20 in parts and a new tub of bearing grease.
Some people will take the time to fix something, as many things made in years past were made to a standard that allows them to be repaired. With things made today, which may include automobiles of this time period, BREAK FACTORS are engineered into things to MAKE THEM break so you have to pay a repairman to fix the item or buy a new item to "keep money flowing in the nation's economy".
Some people will just replace something because it is easier, they don't like to troubleshoot and repair items, are getting too old to do it like I feel sometimes, or didn't troubleshoot the problem correctly initially and are frustrated by having to do the job a second time and figure they'll just replace the part because that way it is foolproof.
I understand Cardone's stand on adding grease to one of their window motors, I would think if you buy a new window motor and open it up and pack it with grease you would void any warranty on that part too, not smart!
I have NEVER opened up a used Ford window motor and found hardened grease in it. I have been working on my own cars, trucks and vans, and family members' cars, trucks and vans since around 1980 and I have opened A LOT of window motors. I have put many sets of nylon bushings in the same window motors over the years and the window motors are still working FINE.
I believe the nylon bushings are made nylon so those that force windows up or down all the way are kept from breaking the glass in some vehicles as the nylon "gives" when the window reaches its stopping points. This is the weakest point in the window motors, the plastic gear being the second weak point, as I stated earlier with replacing bushings several times in a window motor, the brushes would be the third weak point and that from age.
Look at it a different way, an after-market manufacturer of a window motor puts less grease in it than the manufacturer did, like Ford. With less grease in it will you overheat and wear that motor out sooner? Who will profit more if you do wear the motor out sooner? Ford has been putting power window motors in its cars for a long time (at least the early 60s) and I am sure it has worked through many design flaws over the years to warrant packing the motor with grease like it does.
goskate74, good luck with your troubleshooting, repair and/or replacement of your window motor(s). Whether you are able to fix the motor(s) or you have to resort to buying new either way you will have gained the valuable knowledge on how to do this. Checking the other one while you are in there will save time having to remove the back seat again in the future as mentioned by others.
As said, it is an easy fix once you get the seat out. For me, that's what I find the most difficult part of dealing with the 1/4 window motors.
Both of my motors are still nice and strong. I like that the little bushings are the weak link in the design. I'd rather spend $10 or $20 on the things vs $70+ for new motors.
As for modes of failure... I noticed mine have failed when I've tried to move the 1/4 windows with the top up. I guess there is too much drag and the motor ends up eating the bushings. I'd rather it do that than break a window, rip weather stripping or shell out the motor's drive gears.
Sorry to hear. I ordered my NPD replacement this week. In the big scheme of things, $65 isn't too bad to fix the problem. The CEL came on in my DD and from the code, I could be looking at anywhere from 50 to 500 and up to fix a lousy sensor. My F-in-law is fond of saying the car hobby is an expensive one...unfortunately.
Honestly, I didn't find removing the rear seat to be a big deal. Course, learning to work on my mustang is something I consider a fun hobby (when things go mostly right and I don't break anything).
The internals of the OE motors are plastic, too. The outer gear and the three little bushings are plastic and are sacrificial. They're cheaper than replacing a window!
And my gripe with the rear seat is just having to tug up on the corners to get at the bolts holding the thing in both when installing and removing. Other than that, it's an easy fix.
kechme93 I remember the correct way to raise a lowered convertible top in the 60s Mustangs was to have the rear windows down slightly when raising the top. I am not sure if Ford recommended this procedure in the Fox Mustang convertibles or not, I believe they did. Although I have been guilty of the same thing I usually try to at least lower the rear windows slightly when raising the convertible top. With all of the junk I carry around inside of my cars it has been a very long time since I have driven around with a top dropped though.
gokstate74 (I messed your profile name up earlier, my apologies) SOME sensors can be CLEANED like EGR valves, IACs, Mass Air Sensors and I believe O2 Sensors. Make sure you don't have a clogged or congested air filter causing you a problem too, depending upon what the code is that turned the check engine light on. The most reasonable way to enjoy the car hobby is to fix the problems that arise yourself, this makes the cost to maintain your vehicle considerably less expensive when you aren't paying a mechanic $80.00 per hour plus parts to fix it.
Thanks for all the advice!